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Anderson Cooper 360

News/Business. (2013) (CC)

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George Zimmerman 24, Zimmerman 19, Us 4, Trayvon 3, Florida 3, Mark Geragos 3, Jeffrey Toobin 3, Marcia Clark 3, Neutrogena 3, Cnn 2, Mexico 2, Mr. Zimmerman 2, Havana 2, Sunny Hostin 2, John Guy 2, Anderson 2, Edward Snowden 2, Marsha 2, Mark O'mara 2, Tom Owen 2,
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  CNN    Anderson Cooper 360    News/Business.  (2013) (CC)  

    June 25, 2013
    1:00 - 2:01am PDT  

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good evening, welcome to self defense or murder, in depth look at the george zimmerman trial. every night, all this week, we are going to be recapping what happened in the florida courtroom, break it down with some of the greatest legal minds. this is a controversial, racially charged case, we will bring extended moments from the court proceedings so you can decide for yourself what really happened that terrible night in sanford, florida. george zimmerman is accused of second degree murder. he was a neighborhood watch captain when he shot martin. he doesn't deny pulling the trigger. the case hinges on why he shot the african-american teenager. zimmerman says it was self defense. the jury of six women will decide the case. the trial began today in dramatic fashion, an f bomb, knock knock joke, and then apology for the knock knock
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joke. you'll hear it all momentarily. first, david mattingly brings us up to the minute. >> police fire and medical. >> i heard a shot behind my house. >> shock, confusion, fear, you hear it in the voice of every 911 caller in the final moments of trayvon martin's young life. >> a person is dead laying on the ground. oh, my god. >> february 26, 2012. 17-year-old trayvon martin buys some skittles and ice tea, walks through a community of town homes where he is staying with his father. that's where he catches the attention of neighborhood watch volunteer, george zimmerman. >> these [bleep], they always get away. >> he was watching trayvon martin walking alone. >> this guy looks like he is up to no good or he's on drugs or something. >> less than a minute later, he gets out of his car. >> are you following him? >> yeah. >> okay, we don't need you to do that.
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>> okay. >> then a few minutes later, there's another call. >> 911, do you need police, fire, medical? >> maybe both, i'm not sure, there's someone screaming outside. >> in the background, listen for the sound of a fight and panicked voice yelling for help. >> is it a male or female? >> sounds like a male. >> you don't know why? >> i don't know why, i think they're yelling help but i don't know. just send someone quick, please. >> ten seconds later, the shrieking continues. then a gunshot. >> do you think he is yelling help? >> yes. >> all right, what is -- >> there's gunshots. >> you just heard gunshots? >> yes. >> how many? >> just one. >> just one. a shot to the heart, ending the life of trayvon martin. a bloodied and bruised george zimmerman tells police it was
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self defense. >> felt like my body was on the grass, my head was on the cement, he kept slamming and slamming. >> zimmerman is not arrested, no charges immediately filed. florida law allows people to use force in self defense, the stand your ground law. but before investigators can go to a grand jury, a fire storm descends on sanford. >> justice for trayvon. >> thousands march the streets with similar protests around the country. even the president is disturbed. >> if i had a son, he'd look like trayvon. >> 44 days after he shoots and kills trayvon martin, george zimmerman is charged with second degree murder and he turns himself in. zimmerman gets out on bail, but it doesn't last. when detailing his assets, he didn't tell the court about $130,000 in donations to a defense fund. he goes back to jail. gets out again, this time on a million dollar bond. since then, zimmerman sightings are few and far between, his
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attorneys say he lives in fear, venturing out only in disguise and always wearing body armor. >> each time he shows up, his weight gain is astonishing. his attorneys say he has put on 120 pounds. they may try to make him a profiler and a killer. his defense is building their own profile of trayvon martin. >> i am not sure if it is recreation, he is very used to fighting, that he has used drugs in the past, many 17-year-olds have, but that he has as well. >> zimmerman's defense released pictures and text messages suggesting 17-year-old martin was no stranger to pot, guns, and fighting. three months before he encountered george zimmerman, trayvon martin sends text messages about a fight, saying his opponent didn't bleed enough, only his nose. less than a week before the fatal encounter, martin texted i hid my weed, it's wrapped. important questions persist
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about what happened the night the two crossed paths, who threw the first punch? who is that on the 911 tapes crying for help? the answers will lead a jury to decide, was this a case of self-defense or murder? david mattlingly, cnn, atlanta. >> an important developments about the 911 tapes, the audio recordings and analysis of them, we will tell you that coming up. today after a weekend ruling in which the trial judge barred expert testimony on the 911 calls, opening statements did begin finally, including this from the defense. listen. >> i think the evidence will show that this is a sad case. that there are no monsters. sometimes you have to laugh to keep from crying. so let me at considerable risk,
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let me say i'd like to tell you a little joke. i know how that may sound a bit weird in this context, under these circumstances. but i think you're the perfect audience for it, as long as if you don't like it or don't think it is funny or inappropriate, don't hold it against mr. zimmerman, hold it against me, but not mr. zimmerman. i have your assurance you won't. here is how it goes. knock knock. who's there. george zimmerman. george zimmerman who? all right, good. you're on the jury. nothing? that's funny. >> he did not leave it there, however. martin savidge was in the courtroom, joins us now. i don't know if i ever heard of a lawyer using a knock knock joke in opening statements in a murder trial.
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how did the jury react to that? we heard awkward laughter when he sort of said what, nothing? >> right. i didn't see one juror that laughed. there was one that seemed to smile, but i couldn't tell if that was humor or out of embarrassment. it clearly just fell flat in the room. it was only after that, i was going to say, don west got wind this didn't work. it went out on the twitter sphere really fast. immediately after lunch he came back and said i'm sorry, here, listen. >> no more bad jokes, i promise that. i'm convinced it was the delivery, though. i really thought that was funny. i'm sorry if i offended anyone about that. >> i mean, for him to set up the joke so much, i mean, i really
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don't quite get what he was thinking and certainly his whole delivery of it. that's not the only thing raised eyebrows. i want to play the first words, the prosecutor's opening statement. let's listen. >> good morning. >> morning. >> [bleep] punks. these [bleep] always get away. those were the words in that grown man's mouth as he followed in the dark a 17-year-old boy who he didn't know. and excuse my language, but those were his words, not mine. [bleep] punks. these [bleep], they always get away. >> certainly dramatic. how did that go over in the courtroom. >> that one had tremendous impact. he just finished saying good morning and drops the f bomb. everybody was shocked, whether you were a journalist or whether you were on the jury and that was the interesting thing.
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you saw them lock eyes with that prosecutor and they never let up for the entire 30 minutes that he made his presentation, their eyes were really glued on listening to john guy and layout the whole argument. he captured their attention and held it. don west, not the same story for the defense. >> and held it for 30 plus minutes, whereas for don west, he went on for more than three hours. how did zimmerman appear today? one of the things the defense made a point of mentioning was his huge weight gain while awaiting trial. you said in the piece, he put on more than 100 pounds. >> right. i mean, you could watch him, of course, this trial goes on for hours. if you watch anybody continuously, you're going to see different changes in demeanor. there were times in the defense's presentation he almost looked as if he were dozing off. there were other times he didn't appear to be even listening to the prosecution, for instance, when they made the very dramatic
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claims and statements. his attorneys were watching, but he, himself seemed to be looking a different direction. when the 911 calls are played, the terrible sound of screaming and gunfire, he didn't really seem to be focused right on that. but again, this is interpretations you're making looking at him. but the whole gamut as you watched the day develop, sometimes very interested, sometimes appearing not so. >> martin, thanks very much. joined by our own legal team, distinguished panel, sonny hostin, jeffrey toobin, on the defense side, criminal defense attorney mark geragos, a look at how the criminal justice system worked and sometimes doesn't. marcia clark, deputy district attorney and author, her latest thriller, "killer ambition." sonny, you were in the courtroom, the knock knock joke, how damaging do you think it was. a defense attorney normally
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doesn't apologize to the jury, especially on the first day. >> you know, i looked at the jury because i was so surprised at this joke. they seemed offended to me and it was painful for me to listen to. not only as someone covering the trial but as someone who has tried cases and given opening statements, some of them go better than others, but this was just so very painful. i will tell you, it wasn't just the delivery of the knock knock joke which didn't make sense, it was a rambling presentation. he seemed to break all the rules of opening statement, it wasn't schematic, it was rambling. it didn't make sense to me. >> mark, you think it is much ado about nothing. what do you make of this three hour opening statement by the defense, where the prosecution had 30 minutes opening statement? >> look, i have to tell you having tried quite a few cases
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that the idea that somehow this knock knock joke is going to make a difference i think is almost as funny or as unfunny as that joke came across. it is going to matter not one wit. the fact that it is three hours versus 30 minutes, the fact that the prosecutor that got up there was very dramatic in 30 minutes, that's great for tv and great to show it, that he's dropping the f bomb and everything else. you want to know the truth, my experience has been, and i have been in situations where i've seen people give kind of a rambling two hour opening statement, and jurors later on said that was helpful. so i don't think you can gauge anything or make any great statements or conclusions by this. i will tell you that i don't think you're going to see west do the closing. i think this was mark o'mara saying you have been working on the case, you do the opening, i'll do the close. and ultimately it is not going to matter because all that matters in this case is first of
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all jury selection, then what do the witnesses say, and are they going to call george zimmerman. >> jeff, i want to play another clip of the prosecutor, john guy, laying out what he says are george zimmerman's lies. let's listen. >> you will learn that that's when he began to spin that tangled web of lies. for example, he told the police that it was just after he hung out with shawn, the 911 dispatcher, that trayvon martin approached him, confronted him, said a couple words to him, then punched him and knocked him to the ground, just moments after that. ladies and gentlemen, that did not happen. >> do you think that's an effective tact to take, trying to say there are systemic lies we can point to? >> very because this is a self defense case and this is not a
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who done it. there are very few issues in dispute here. we know that zimmerman killed trayvon martin. we know how he killed him, we know where and when. the only issue in this case is intent. did he intend to murder him or was this an act of self defense? and if the prosecution can show zimmerman lied about what he did, that suggests a guilty conscience, that suggests he knew what he did was wrong. so if the prosecution can really establish that he lied about what he did, i think that's an extremely effective way of negating self-defense. we will see if they can do it, but that's a good theme for the prosecution to emphasize at the beginning. >> marsha, if it boils down to intent, as jeff says, it seems to based on the charges, the
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fact that the prosecutor began opening statement quoting george zimmerman, using a lot of offensive language, do you think that's effective? does that show to the jury intent on george zimmerman's part, the way he perceived trayvon martin? >> yes, it is the beginning. what we have done by quoting the words, they're powerful words, show a state of mind consistent with someone that will track down, racially profile this young man, track him down and kill him without justification. they're showing a mindset consistent with their theory of the case that he profiled trayvon martin and overreacted and overacted and became aggressive with him without cause and without need, and to that extent, opening statement was an effective statement. look here, look here. his mind was in this frame, they're right to do it. zimmerman was saying on that tape he's up to no good, he looks like he's stoned. what? and how would he even know that? he is wearing a hoodie, completely covered up, walking apparently steadily.
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the clerk at the 7-eleven made that clear as well. it shows he is willing to jump to conclusions and i think that's very effective. i want to point out one thing, anderson, it is the prosecution's burden to prove the killing was not justified. it is not just that they have to prove that george zimmerman shot trayvon martin with the intent to commit murder but also they have to prove that it wasn't justified, so it is more like they have to prove a negative as well. everything that goes into his intent, i agree it is a key issue here, is important. >> you were saying the key thing, the jury has been selected, how do you think that plays, who do you think it favors at this point? >> i think it is clear to me at least contrary to what i guess the general political chattering class or legal chattering class believes that this is a defense jury. i have said and will continue to
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say, it is the defense's case to lose. they have the racial makeup, the demographic makeup they want in this case. i think when you get in there and start talking about the kinds of things the prosecutor was talking about today, i don't know that that resonates with this jury. it may resonate with a bunch of trial watchers who were looking for a lot of pizazz, but remember, what we're talking about here matters very little. it only matters what the six women in that jury box think. and given what i heard at least and read about the jurors that are in there, i'm just not so sure that the prosecution's tact here is an effective one. >> trial watchers looking for pizazz, i assume you're looking for everyone else on this panel. >> well, i wasn't going to say that it is 3-1, 3-1 ex-prosecutors versus the lonely defense lawyer here.
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>> mark, we're doing this all week. you're starting off by pissing off everybody on the panel. not the way to start the week. >> anderson, i am kind of on the other coast, i am safe here. >> we have to take a quick break. a lot more to dig in over course of this hour. there's so much. i want to talk more as marsha mentioned about undeniable importance of race in the trial and surrounding the tragedy. the prosecution making it clear they believe george zimmerman was motivated by skin color. how will that play with the jury. the martin family was told to stay out of the court. ben krump joins us. the sleep number bed conforms to you. i wake up in the morning with no back pain. i can adjust it if i need to...if my back's a little more sore. and by the time i get up in the morning, i feel great! if you have back pain, toss and turn at night or wake up tired with no energy, the sleep number bed could be your solution. the sleep number bed's secret is it's air
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>> and we are confident at the end of this trial, you will know, in your head, in your heart, and your stomach that george zimmerman did not shoot trayvon martin because he had to, he shot him for the worst of
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all reasons, because he wanted to. >> central to that argument, something fuelled with the controversy surrounding this case t question of race. prosecutor john guy letting it out clearly today. >> that defendant at the same time was upright walking around preparing, preparing to tell law enforcement why it was he had just profiled, followed, and murdered an unarmed teenager. somebody who wanted to be a police officer, somebody that had called the police numerous times about crime in his neighborhood, someone who had become the neighborhood watch captain, and someone who believed most importantly that it was his right to rid his neighborhood of anyone that he believed didn't belong. he profiled him as someone that was about to commit a crime in
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his neighborhood and then he acted on it, and that's why we're here. >> he profiled him. the shoomting happened february 26th. he was never arrested until april, after national outcry, centered mainly on the racial dimension and local decision not to charge zimmerman played out for weeks in marches like this one in new york union square, people wearing hood di-s like the one he wore the night he was killed. protesters at this march and others, saying trayvon martin was followed and killed because of his skin color. george zimmerman and his family and others have repeatedly denied. the question is how will the jury see it? back with our panel, sunny
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hostin, mark geragos, jeffrey toobin, marcia clark. how did this play a part? >> it is interesting to me in the courtroom, didn't seem to play a part in opening statements. race was not mentioned once. we did hear the word profile, which many would say is code for racial profiling, but when john guy, the prosecutor, discussed this case, he did not mention race, he only mentioned profiling in the sense of he profiled trayvon martin as someone who was about to commit a crime in the neighborhood. i thought it was fascinating. i think we can all agree race is sort of the elephant in the room, that it appears no one is going to talk about. >> that was because the judge, marsha, was saying you can't use the term racial profiling, you can use the word profiling, correct? >> exactly, anderson. everybody knows when you say profiling, what comes before it. it is the silent k in know. that's what it is.
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you can pretend it is not there, don't have to say the word or say the word race, we're all going to know what it is about. when he says profiling, that's what he means. >> do you find it strange, mark, that a judge is describing what kind of words can be used in an opening statement? >> it is beyond strange. i was laughing with marsha about this. that the preview language before opening statement, someone can act as editor beforehand, say you can say this word, can't say that word. my experience is you make your opening statement. if you go over the line, somebody objects, it is argumentative, motion to strike, that's it. so i don't quite understand it. the idea that race is an elephant in the room as sunny says couldn't be more true. that's why i think the jury selection and demographic tilts towards the defense. i don't think the prosecution likes this.
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>> i think the racial dimension proposes such an interesting issue for the defense. how does the defense deal with it? does zimmerman's lawyer come out and call witnesses and say you know some of his best friends are african-american, which apparently may be true, but does that -- is that too much? do you wind up offending the jury? i think the defense is put in a very difficult position, if their client is accused of being a racist. how do you respond to that? i don't know the answer and i am sure the defense will work its way through that as the trial progresses, but i think that's just a very interesting strategic dilemma for the defense. >> defense attorney, mark, how would you go about that? >> i think this thing is going to play out the way o'mara wants it to play out. mark is going to i don't think
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put his client on the stand. it is rare any defense lawyer, absent the sky falling in wants to put their client on the stand. i think he's going to try this case within the prosecution's case. if the prosecution wants to go down the race road, he'll deal with it within cross examination. i don't see him frankly putting somebody on the stand who's going to say some of my best friends or i am a best friend, i happen to be african-american, i think that would be a fool's errand. i think what you have to do is say there hasn't been anything here to show that this self-proclaimed hispanic was out here profile thg guy, other than he thought he was somebody that was up to no good at that time of night. was he a wannabe cop? i don't think there's anybody who would say that these people that go on neighborhood watch don't have that tendency. the joke always about security guards, that they failed the
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psychiatric test for law enforcement and that's why they're security guards, so i mean, i think that's a given, but a lot of people frankly embrace that, like that kind of stuff. if you've got people that have been victimized, they might like the fact there's somebody out there looking a little extra hard, with a cynical or jaded eye in their neighborhood. this is almost completely flip flopped, the usual calculations. almost like the defense is looking for the usual prosecutorial types. >> anderson, could i give mark's home phone number so any security guards listening can call him and explain that they didn't fail the psychiatric test? >> i tell you, mark is left and right. >> winning friends tonight! >> winning friends, influencing people. stick around, we're going to come back to you later in the program, we will let mark regroup. trayvon martin's family was in
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the courtroom. at times, they were reduced to tears. their attorney was kicked out of the courtroom because he is a potential witness. we're going to talk to him next.
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as we said, the florida courtroom where george zimmerman's fate will be decided was packed today, but not everyone was allowed to stay. the martin family attorney had to leave when the judge ruled he shouldn't stay because he's a potential witness. the defense indicated it may call him to the stand. mr. crump joins me live on the program. were you surprised they excused you from court today? >> somewhat, but we had expected that when they invoked the rule
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that george zimmerman's family would be asked because they were on the witness list, and i potentially a witness that the defense may call, asked to leave, so we are dealing with that my clients rather i be in court with them, anderson as i have been before, but we have a good legal team, so we're not the going to do anything to stop them from having their day in court. >> the defense says that you interjected yourself into the case because you found and interviewed trayvon martin's girlfriend last year before law enforcement questioned her. a, did you do that, and if you did, why? >> well, anderson, you have to remember, we can't operate in a vacuum. the sanford police were not going to arrest george zimmerman and as far as his family knew there was nothing that was going to happen to him, so we were doing everything in our power to get evidence and get the story out to try to tell people look
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at these facts, and it came out on the phone records. these are the phone records that we have no control over that show she was on the phone a minute before trayvon was killed, so that was very telling and then she told us what she heard on that phone, and that became an important factor. so it is going to all come out, we are here at this trial proceeding where we can get the evidence out and pray the jury base their verdict on the evidence and the law and nothing more. >> there's still a possibility that trayvon martin's father could be called to the witness stand, correct? >> yes. >> and trayvon's mother spoke before court began today. i just want to play a part of that for our viewers. >> i'm here today as trayvon martin's mother, as i have been every day, i will be attending
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this court, and to try to get justice for my son. >> she actually had to leave court at one point today prior to the 911 call being played and apparently a lot of jurors were watching her as she left. there was some talk from analysts that they may object if they continue to get up, that it is attracting attention. were you concerned about that at all? >> i wasn't in the courtroom today, but i do know this is awfully emotional for them. this is the death of their child in the most unimaginable way. to have to painstakingly watch it dissect over and over again the last moments of his life is extremely difficult. it's something that is much harder than they ever imagined. they both were visibly disturbed as they came out on the breaks
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with tears in their eyes and just heartbroken. >> obviously, yeah. obviously you're not considered opposing counsel in this trial if a civil wrongful death suit is brought by trayvon's parents, it is likely you and defense attorney mark o'mara will face off against each other? >> it is possible. right now, we are focused getting justice for trayvon martin, this is so important that the killer of an unarmed child is held accountable for that. this is about equal justice and that's what they have asked for from day one, simple justice, nothing more, nothing less. >> how long a trial do you think this is going to be? >> as i understand it, it will probably go about three weeks. >> benjamin crump, appreciate your time tonight. thank you. >> thank you. >> tomorrow night on this program, we're going to talk to defense attorney mark o'mara who will join me. tonight, the jury hears the 911
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call from the neighbor, you hear it yourself and screams in the background, screams that experts say is not coming from george zimmerman but those experts are not going to be allowed to testify in court. we'll explain why, and we're going to interview one of those analysts next. now you can applyk to your kids' wet skin. neutrogena® wet skin kids. ordinary sunblock drips and whitens. neutrogena® wet skin cuts through water. forms a broad spectrum barrier for full strength sun protection. wet skin. neutrogena®.
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in court today, george zimmerman's defense says it was trayvon martin who decided to confront zimmerman and that zimmerman was forced to act in self defense to save his own life. now, the defense played a 911 call from a neighbor in which you can hear screams in the background. audio experts that analyzed the call say the screams are not coming from zimmerman, but the judge, deborah nelson ruled the experts cannot testify. she says there's no evidence their techniques are generally accepted. there's no real validity to them. going to speak with one of those so-called experts in a moment, you're going to hear from him, you can determine for yourself how you feel about it. here is some of the neighbor's 9d 11 call played in court today, trayvon martin's mother left the courtroom, but you see the camera go to his father about halfway through. >> 911 police, fire or medical? >> maybe both, there's someone screaming outside. >> what's the address they're near? is this the town homes in sanford? >> yes. >> is it a male or female?
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>> sounds like a male. >> you don't know why? >> i don't know why. i think they're yelling help but i don't know. just send someone quick, please. >> okay. does he look hurt to you? >> i can't see him, i don't want to go out there, i don't know what's going on. >> they're coming. >> is he still yelling? >> yes. >> just gunshots. >> you just heard gunshots? >> yes. >> how many? >> just one. >> now, two audio experts for the state, for the prosecution, were going to testify saying that they had determined through their own techniques that those cries were not george zimmerman, they could not determine whose cries they were. they weren't saying it was trayvon martin. but again, the judge said their testimony would not be allowed. i spoke with one of the forensic audio experts, tom owen. you don't believe that's george
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zimmerman yelling for help. what makes you say that? >> that's correct. i conducted a study in 1985 and many since that time about people when they scream. about 40% of all 911 calls are screaming and distressed voices of one form or another. so i'm asked constantly to help untangle these sort of 911 calls, both acoustically and otherwise, so i developed a system of using pitch transposition to be able to compare regular voice against higher frequency voice or screaming voice. >> when somebody screams, it is a far different voice than they use when they're talking. >> that's correct. that's correct. but if you say the word help me, your articulation, whether screaming it or not, your articulation is very similar, the way you move your mouth and lips and tongue and so on.
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so as a result of that, that creates acoustical energy that can be relied upon, it makes it so you can use it as a spectrogram, make measurements to something else. my analysis, i start with zimmerman saying help me help me, i need your help from the re-enactment, and then i transcoded it up a third, fourth, sixth, which is about the same frequency as the screams, then added the screams, then i compared them all. >> you didn't have trayvon martin's voice, which is why you're not saying it was trayvon martin's voice, but in your opinion you don't believe it is george zimmerman's voice. >> that's right. that was misstated many times in my testimony by many people. >> the judge as you know ruled you won't be able to testify about this tape. she says your methods are new, they are novel, not widely
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accep accep accepted, no evidence to establish that scientific techniques have been tested and found liable. >> bio metric analysis is over ten years old, used by nsa, cia, department of defense, the entire country of mexico, and 30 or 40 other countries and states, just because she doesn't know about it, doesn't mean it is not reliable. >> it wasn't just the judge questioning the techniques, a senior fbi official testified it was impossible to identify whose voice is screaming, saying the recording is too short, doesn't meet the standards to be evaluated. >> well, he says there were in his opinion, there were only three seconds of usable audio. there's actually seven seconds and ten words of audio. >> the judge also said that you had testified that you had marketed and held a financial stake in the software program you used to evaluate the 911 call. is that in fact the case? >> to a certain extent, yes. i took a piece of software manufactured by a russian company of speech technology center and made it user friendly or windows friendly i should
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say, myself and several other individuals, and we all share in if there's any profit, we all share in that. >> tom owen, appreciate you talking to us. thank you. >> all right, thank you. >> well, the judge isn't wasting time with what she will accept and not accept in the courtroom. here is a couple of exchanges where she's laying down the law, so to speak. >> please don't go off focus here. >> no no. >> don't no, no, no me. >> he is badgering the witness. simple statement, now he is coming up with this -- obviously martin didn't think he would get the door smashed in his face. >> let's stop this now. i have told counsel before first of all no one talks over the other. the court reporter can only take one person down at a time. i will not have any speaking objections in the courtroom. what is your legal objection. >> harassing the witness. >> overruled.
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>> cnn analyst, sunny hostin, jeffrey toobin, mark geragos, and marcia clark. jeff toobin, you wrote in the new yorker a couple years ago about arson investigations and how the science behind it was actually proved to be junk science, was that correct, was that you that wrote that? do you think it applies -- >> it was my colleague david grand who wrote it, a story about someone unjustly executed, tyrone willingham, in texas. >> sorry. thought it was you that wrote it. do you think it is junk science, this analysis? >> absolutely. i think the judge made an excellent decision. in 1993, the supreme court made a decision, dalbert, says judges have to serve as gate keepers for science. just because someone has a ph.d., says i did an analysis, that's not good enough. it has to be science that has
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had testing through double blind tests and the scientific method. this sounds like classic junk science. by the way, the jury can hear this tape for themselves and make a decision. we think it sounds like one or the other. they don't need an expert. this was exactly the right decision by the judge. >> does everybody on the panel agree with that? >> yeah. you know, i agree with it, but i think so many people are classifying this, anderson, as a huge loss to the government and huge loss to the state. i don't agree with that. i think now what is set up is for people in trayvon martin's family to get on the witness stand and identify the voice as that of their family member. >> but zimmerman's family also say that was george zimmerman. mark? >> exactly. right. that's what his father has already testified to in the pretrial hearings. this was a blow to the prosecution because they needed this evidence for the second
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degree. this was their linchpin for the second degree, couldn't agree more with jeff. this has to be one of the most bogus types of so-called evidence or science that i've seen try to get into a courtroom since that guy who came in and was going to identify human death smells in the casey anthony case. i mean, this thing had little or no chance of getting into evidence. i can't even believe they put something on which they knew the fbi had already said we don't put any stock in this. i mean, it is nonsense. and the idea that mexico uses it and turk men stan and those are the bases we allow it into our american courtrooms is mind boggling to me. i am sure mr. owen is a nice husband and father, but as far as being in a courtroom, he belongs on your sister network, hln. >> for the record, i don't believe he said that to bolster the argument.
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there was a back and forth in the beginning of the day whether zimmerman's parents and martin's parents could be in the courtroom for the trial because they're all potential witnesses. judge nelson ruled martin's parents can stay. there's an exemption for immediate family of the victim. i want to put part of the prosecution's opening statement, talking about how they tried to revive trayvon martin at the scene and you can see his father's reaction. >> they hold that if you are to try to give mouth to mouth to somebody that you go to your car first and get a breathing mask to separate your mouth from their mouth. well, sergeant roemando realized there was no time. he put his lips on trayvon martin's lips and tried to breathe the life into him. officer aiello put his palms on
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trayvon martin's chest and tried to push life into him. but it was too late. trayvon martin had already passed. >> obviously very dramatic, moving statement by the prosecutor. the impact of having trayvon martin's family sitting there watching is what? >> oh, it does have an impact, the jurors know who they are, they watch and notice and take in a lot of things in the courtroom, certainly reactions of the family are noticed by jurors, they have told me so themselves, they don't miss this, and how could they not. i don't know that it bodes for conviction, but it humanizes the victim and that's always important for the prosecution to do. sunny, jeff, marsha, good to have you all on the program, thank you very much. coming up, where in the world is nsa leaker edward snowden. what we know about his search for safe haven next. be right back.
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get caught up on other stories. randy kay. >> there's no sign of edward snowden, last seen yesterday in moscow. it was thought he may fly to havana, cuba today on the way to ecuador but he was not on a flight from moscow to havana. news of the health of nelson mandela is not good. they say the condition of the
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president has worsened, he is in a hospital being treated for a lung infection and is 94. and james gandolfini's body returned to the u.s., arrived at newark airport on a charter flight from rome where the 51-year-old actor died of a heart attack last week. a funeral service for him will be thursday in new york city. anderson? >> 51, so young. randy, thanks. join us tomorrow for special coverage of the george zimmerman trial at 10:00 p.m. eastern, all week long. another edition of 360 with all of the day's stories is coming up after the break.
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where in the world is edward snowden, the man who exposed the government's secret spying program, on the run. we'll have the latest twists and turns and what we know about where he might be hiding. immigration reform a step closer to becoming law. can the president pull off a victory or will house republicans refuse to get on board? pandemonium in d.c. a rare red panda found. how did it go missing in the first place? >> good morning, welcome to "early st"